12.9.2017

POWER PLANT UNDER YOUR BED. CONVERSATIONS WITH OMON RA





SL 

  Would you describe your photographing as practice of SEEING in sense of Castaneda? Or is it something else?
    Anyway I cant see the world same way. Im unable to take one of these kind of photographs. Not even accidentally as succesful.
    It is maybe that when I see (and if I see) I never see frames for it, or never could remember that photograsphing exist.
    If I would trying to take photo of it, it would change all the seeing.

Omon Ra

    This is a very difficult question to explain... For me, photography involves two practices at once: stalking and обесцеленность (untranslatable word to the English - close to "detachment to the aim" and "not doing").

    Of course, I do some kind of photos just by accident. But some sessions are very special. This requires reaching the time-sluggish state when the speed of my inner time slows down to the speed of the external time. At the same time there is some defocusing of consciousness. In this state, I can stay long enough. Herewith I get a feeling that the currents of the surrounding world is not monotonous and smooth. Moments of reality are not equal. Some of them are more saturated with special potential energy. Between the moments of time there are special twilight cracks, which are very interesting too. Snatching these sensations, I just press the camera button. Sometimes it does not even matter where it is directed :)
    There are interesting features. For example, the process is violated if in the field of my vision and consciousness fall random people. They seem to warp visibility. I do not know how to explain this.
    But some people I know well do not interfere at all. As if they too become unwilling participants in the session.
    So this is not a seeing in the Castaneda's sense. But for me it is no less powerful practice.

SL

    Ok. I though something like that. Seeing is to see nagual and tonal in same view by dominated of nagual.
    "In this place nature reacts literally to every step of the human - by the appearance of animals, birds and strange beings, atmospheric effects, paranormal phenomena with space and time. It is these places that are called "place of power"." What you think, these phenomenas has common identity with Castanedas descriptions. Or they somehow parallel or analogous? Or phenomenas are just different?


Omon Ra

    "What you think, these phenomenas has common identity with Castanedas descriptions. Or they somehow parallel or analogous? Or phenomenas are just different?" - Of course, these phenomena differ (from Castaneda's descriptions) in detail, but they give very similar sensations in general. For example, these are strange and inexplicable (from the point of human's view) sounds, unusual behavior of animals, changes in the properties of space and time (at least on subjective sensations)
    I am sure that many such phenomena occur not without the participation of representatives of inorganic worlds
    I was a direct witness and participant of some of these events
    And for me it is obvious that these phenomena do not occur by themselves, but are a reaction to the presence, behavior and inner state of some people


SL
  
  This interview is for me quite convincing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhkdL0mwW_0
    YouTube51:54
    Jay Weidner EXPOSING Kubrick's Odyssey
  
    Do you think Pelevins Omon Ra is about Russia, or its about USA covered by Russian "objectives" or "realm". I have feel that Pelevin has always allegoric interpretation which could be more interesting that obvious interpretation, if you just would know the key.

Omon Ra

    Unfortunately, I very badly perceive English by ear. This affects the lack of live communication. Therefore, I can not properly understand the content of this long time video ((
    It's hard to say anything about the prerequisites of the Pelevin's prose. Of course, most of his books have roots in the Russian world. But all this is so hypertrophied and humorous... I sometimes think that this is how Russian fairy tales of the 21st century should look like. :))


SL


    On video interview main point is: US space program exists, but it was kept completely secret. Film and other public propaganda material was fabricated in studio without connection to real space program.
    I mean flight to Moon - program.



Omon Ra


    It seems to me a more interesting question - why all the lunar programs (both Soviet and American) were so hastily closed? We can doubt the people's landing on the moon. But successful launches and operation of automatic lunar rovers is an indisputable fact. And after such impressive achievements, there was an inexplicable halt of all research in this direction. Now there are many programs to launch and study other planets - Venus, Mars, Jupiter and more distant objects. But the Moon which is the closest and strategically needed object to earthmen - it's a taboo. For me it's a mystery.



SL


    I actually think that picture we have about moon could be not necessarily very true but fabricated. Real picture could be known by secret services, but not public. Though I have no idea what it could be. In Castaneda don Juan mention that for sorcerer no problem to flight to moon. Of cource this idea is widely used in popular culture as Munchausen etc.
    Now last pages in part V second world and second attention was gave more precise description. Very horrific.
    ...


    About your forest trips. Have you think about water, if there is flowing water too near. You do not hear it while without mushroom, but start to hear with mushroom. It can be very dangerous. Even sound of flowing water can be hard to avoid in that state of consciousness. There is this description of traveling by water molecule (inside green vapour). It is extreme dangerous if not have shaman available who can take you back. This is one reason inside house can be more safe for triping.


Omon Ra


    I did not have such problems. Why water can be dangerous in a changed state of awareness?
    For me, water is a friendly element



SL


According to don Juan, water is harmful for the second attention. 
    Sound of flowing water and watching water are both extremely dangerous as Castaneda describes, because they very slowly can hypnotize person deeper and deeper for its own infinity. I have read this also from other sources. If not have some sound which then masks water sound, like shaman singing etc.



Omon Ra


    The magic of Castaneda is not absolute.


SL

 
    I havent experienced this, but somehow I know this. I made some acoustic research of watersounds when I was studying.
    At least im pretty sure that for me it could be dangerous.
    Because im kind of unrestrained to listening this kind of things. I can fall and fall, give up completely with sounds.



Omon Ra


    I do not know ... The sound of river streams affects me very favorably



SL



    But you have tried it with power plants?
    What you gonna do then if you going to be sucked of the green vapour and going to see the flying balls (molecules)?
    Or this phenomena that water freeze.


Omon Ra

 
    If you mean an increased sensitivity to sounds after eating mushrooms, then these sounds are perceived as a whole and indivisible picture. I simply did not single out the sounds of water separately, but perceived the sound picture as a whole


SL


    Yes, ok. If there is lot of sound masking water sound, situation is completely different. I talk about situation where is only quite loud water sound.



Omon Ra



    I have not tried to use mushrooms near the river. Maybe it's really dangerous


SL


    I have read is many sources and also now from Castaneda. Maybe it is not problem for don Juan or some experienced sorcerer who know how to travel with water. But I do not have any idea about it in practise. Just im not ready meet the situation.


SL


    Jodorowskys Tarot convincing me more. His serial system of Tarot is pretty abstract, but it really gets very interesting. https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91tB..

 
    He uses a lot Castanedas concepts. It is like Castanedas reformation to form of Tarot.



***

SL 
    I made in year 1998 first research about this topic, though I modelled mostly watersounds. And designed simple classifier and synthesis method based on time-reversability feature (in any time window). For the windsounds, firesounds and the earthly sounds. Electromagnetic based sounds I did not sereached. All the nature sounds except animal produced was in anyway in scope. In theory, also hallusinations based inorganic world. http://www.aalto.fi/en/current/news/2016-06-22/


Omon Ra

    I did not quite understand. Have you developed your own synthesizer for natural sounds?

SL


    I was digitized from Finnish Radio archive a lot of natural sounds and recorded my self.
    I wrote by Matlab some analyzing tool based on ERB filter banks, Hilbert transformations, some statistic tools etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalent_rectangular_..
    Same tool was able for crossyntheris by filterbank envelopes from any natural noise for any source sound.
    Basicly it was first study for this are. Trying to classify all the sources and design some simple tehcnical classifier for this kind of noises.
    Wind noise models are of cource very used in speech tehnology.


Omon Ra


    What is the principle of such classification? Mathematical analysis of the frequency spectrum?
    and some dynamic characteristics of sound?


Omon Ra


    About 20 years ago I also worked on the idea of creating a universal classifier - not only sound, but also visual. The method was based purely on the mathematical principle of calculating the fractal dimension of sound and visual phenomena. Any natural phenomenon has a fractal structure.
    The ranges of fractal dimensions exactly corresponded to different classes of phenomena

    Yes fractal structures was founded, this is it. My study was very primitive. I was concentrated basicly only to flowing water sounds. More there is activity, more the certain magnitude envelope forms of the certain frequency bands are time-reversable (time symmetric in any scale) and fractal zoomable.
    Just wanted to mention this because talked about water sound before.
    About northern light sounds, at the time it was question, are they emitted really from the near space of the planet or "near space" of the listeners head.


    Aureola of Planet or aureola of the listener...


Omon Ra

 
    It is difficult for me to say something about the northern lights ... I have not even seen it and did not hear its sound :(
    it never happens in our latitudes

SL


    This professor Laine has huge collection of data reported by people who has experienced sounds which has some time relation to visual effects.
    Some kind of sychronity of temporal patterns between sounds and visuals in Aureola borealis.
    This is just one type of natural process emitted noises. Though quite mysterious.


Omon Ra


    It seems to me that his idea is quite realistic. At least from the point of view of ordinary physics.
    I have heard sounds whose origin can not be rationally explained to myself...

SL

 
    It is of cource pretty strange if sounds waves are travelled from the near space. Must be huge energy.
    Should check if Aureola borealis has some visible pattern on Electroencephalography EEG.



Omon Ra


    yes, this is an interesting topic for research

SL


    There could be temporal correlation.



    ...
    One thing on Castaneda is real distances. From LA to Sonora, its about 1000 km driving. And to Mexico City at least 3000 km one way. Oaxaca about 4000 km.
    At the time roads, cars and culture in road was pretty different.
    Its unbelievable distances to drive all the time during years.

Omon Ra

 
    In one of the books he mentioned that the road to central regions of Mexica takes about 6-7 days in one way...

SL


    Yes, its amazing crazy driving... Especially Oaxaca and Jucatan are very far areas.


***

SL


    Why every photo of moon has the same visual pattern: https://www.google.fi/search?q=MOON&source=lnms..
    
    meant this:
    "The Moon is in synchronous rotation: it rotates about its axis in about the same time it takes to orbit Earth. This results in it always keeping nearly the same face turned towards Earth. However, due to the effect of libration, about 59% of the Moon's surface can actually be seen from Earth."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon#Lunar_swirls
    That how this sychronous rotation can keep its phase completely exact.
    As seen from photoes took from the surface of Earth, Moon has always exactly the same face.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon#Appearance_from_Ea..


Omon Ra


    Such high accuracy of synchronization arose here not by chance. This is the result of a long-term interaction of the gravitational fields of two objects.

Omon Ra


    http://www.astronet.ru/db/msg/1167143 - here is a very capacious article, clearly explaining all the seeming oddities in the movement of the moon. article in Russian, but the internet has a lot of similar descriptions in English or Finnish

SL


    https://www.taivaanvahti.fi/observations/show/66827

Omon Ra

    grandiose performance!

SL


    about campbell tarot text I quoted, you can of cource see this theroy of relativity model:
    https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-79eab367b40254e..
    Is second form he talk about, you must shift both cones toward future on causality angle (Y angle). Actually it mean that you have travelled to past.
    When you have more time-space to observe tha just your personal, you have travelled to past.


    About "The witches explanation”, have you think about what it is in post modern russian or western societies?
    Somehow Pelevin's Empire V is kind of "The witches explanation” of postmodern era, or what you think?

    We have flooding conspiracy theories, but we have very little higher conscious level knowledge about "The witches explanation” of our own society.

    We don’t have don Juan, who just tell us, whats going on really in here. At least I do not have. mFinland is most amazing and mysterious place. Here the banality of the form of expression and mysterious silent force of the undercurrent is just brain blasting. This is most contradictory and incomprehensible society I know. Maybe because
    here has been so absolutely strange historical knowledge distraction process during 1100-1809.

    But the phenomena is wider. We can see for example England, how wide is conspiracy theory scene there, and also magic as a practice. Most mysterious is the inarticulation and silence in level of the "The witches explanation” of our societies.


    ...
    Do you have any interpretation, empirical or metaforic, to "the wall of fog".
    ?
    Have you seen it?
    Or is it rather something metaforic between esoteric (second) and eksoteric (first) attention...


Omon Ra

 
    "Finland is most amazing and mysterious place. Here the banality of the form of expression and mysterious silent force of the undercurrent is just brain blasting." - In Russia, about the same thing...
    I'm very far from social life ... It's hard for me to talk about how magical aspects manifest themselves in ordinary russian life...
    Most people do not know anything about this and live with ordinary consumer values
    But under certain extreme conditions, ancient unconscious forces awaken in people, which begin to act according to some higher providence



Omon Ra


    The Russian land (especially beyond the Urals) is abundantly populated by strange forces that are very far from the standards of the European civilization. There is no such writer who could describe it to the fullest extent



SL


    Do you live near Kaspian sea?


Omon Ra


    No, it's very far from me. I cant tell you where I exactly live... It not because I wouldnt like to...



SL

 
    What about systematization of teachings of don juan and castanedas writings... is there any this kind of aproaches on russian language available?
    Or is this by definition beyond systems...?


Omon Ra


    I met some Siberian branches of shamanism, which are pretty close to the teachings of Castaneda
    But this is not written books



SL


    What is idea to avoid written culture / conservationn in these traditions. Don Juand warriors are all able to read and write but they do not see any meaning on that.
    Im not very learned in antropology, this is propably basic question for them.

Omon Ra


    Practicing shamans do not make any sense contacting the publishing business. This is a completely different world
    Therefore, what Castaneda did is unique in terms of the interpenetration of the two worlds

SL

 
    But what is reason they not recognize value of literature in their culture conservation? It gonna make some things much more fluent and easier to adapt. But also esoteric culture would become fragile by it...


SL


    I for example write many things without idea ever publish these text as book, or at least sell these books (blogbooksi I publish in Lulu just for my self and some few people who want them). But it is very powerful tool with tags and search engines for me to systematize my ideas.


Omon Ra


    Because these people are from another world. To publish a book, you need to be well-oriented in the publishing business.
    Probably you have some free time to write texts. In the world of magic, there is no free time. Every action takes place with a definite pragmatical goal
    These people even speak with reluctance, if it takes a long time

SL


    I think I do not fully understand you. 

So they not have any need for this tool in itse any form or technology?


Omon Ra


    Why should a forest shaman write books?
    He has everything necessary for his activities without any books

SL

 
    I do not talk about books, but tool for memory
    apparently this kind of tool is not needed
    Genaro for example joking about it many times in C
    if you can read, no problem if paperi is upside down in your hand: you can read without watch the paper


Omon Ra


    I saw that they are doing some kind of writings, but all this for internal use

SL


    ok. this is what I mean
    and how they share these writings?
    Anyway information their custom contains is amazingly large... Castanedas books are about 4000 pages
    information of magic is infinitely large

Omon Ra


    Basically, this knowledge of reference nature... They do not make sense to an outsider
    Most of the Russian esoteric traditions imply a direct transfer of knowledge - from person to person
    By the way, this principle holds even in classical modern science
    I'm sure that real knowledge can not be conveyed in a book
    Knowledge must come from within


SL


    This diagrammatic figure I send about Castas system, speech is between reason and feeling only

Omon Ra


    If we'll translate such knowledge into textual information, it will not give anything to other people
    Knowledge is the shift of the assembly point

SL

 
    https://toltecwarrior.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/ken..


Omon Ra


    Textual description of this is just a fairy tale about power

    sorry talk is between reason and feeling/ seeing / dreaming


    yes, you already sent me this scheme

SL

 
    but direct knowledge is centered by will
    and will have no connection to talk
    straight
    so function of talk is something special
    it is not about knowing
    but it has some function
    reason is obviously not the center of the whole



Omon Ra


    "direct knowledge is centered by will" - that's right! knowledge is not relevant to information and to reason


SL

    reason is maybe some kind of map, which has objective dimension


Omon Ra


    knowledge is a bundle of energy fibers collected by the assembly point


SL


    in case that reason dominates will, it mean: reason serves explanations and replaces knowledge by explanation which seemingly are acceptable
    in dominance reason explains phenomenas out
    but if Omon Ra like shaman has knowledge
    I think reason is for him also useful for something
    though for very different function



Omon Ra


    the reason is a very useful thing ... it acts as a shield


SL

 
    but also special consensus is achieved by in level of talk and reason
    at least in case between Castaneda and don Juan.
    but between western women and Castaneda its not.
    ...
    I have now read about 2100 pages of Castaneda and I still cant find explanation of why these people accept him as one of them.
    Don Juan explanation is that force was choose him.
    But Silvio Manuel (who comes to the scene after strange session of remembering some hideen common past with la Gorda) is more sceptic.
    He make dream work and got the answer. He sees that Carlos is 3-based nagual, while others are 4-based.
    But answer can not be given to Carlos him self. He must wait. He dont know what is the purpose of him self.



Omon Ra


    We still do not know who Castaneda is and for what purpose his books were written


SL


    This is exactly what I have intensively think during these days.


    why this text exists.
    why I read thist text right now.
    why I feel what I feel etc.
    why this emerges certain things in me,
    and so on



Omon Ra

 
    Moreover, in the last years of Castaneda's life, his group launched an active mass activity. This activity was even more strange than the books
    It was like a massive attraction of people as energy donors
    Perhaps Castaneda was a bad nagual and the magicians of his group needed external energy to get out of our world. They could not cope with their own forces ...


SL


    This aim to "get out" is very mysterious.
    Like this world would be some trial,
    purgatory


Omon Ra


    Yes, from this moment there are a lot of questions


SL

    Drainage divide planet. Planet Purgatory is in Beelzebub's tales.


Omon Ra


    Daniil Andreev explains many things in his fundamental work "The Rose of the World"
    All that concerns the mechanism of transitions between the worlds
    Although, he does it in a somewhat peculiar manner
    This is somewhat similar to the Beelzebub's tales (from the point of view of the strangeness of the presentation)


SL



    The fact is that I do not remember anything if im not write it down. And I have a lot of memories which I do not know I have. These are kind of opposing flows.

    ...anything or at least not all the things Im willing to return later...
    Castaneda has also all the time this motive of remembering detailed information. Even not purely language details, as writers who using dialects and anomalious speech...
    My friend who has meet Pelevin in Moscow, told that he made all the time notes to notebook, even between chating with his closest friends.
    Jodorowsky talk about "literature fanatism" which he pointing these very recognizable types of modern world, who mix cosumerism and literature, and forming popular best selling phenomenas out of nothing.
    Do you have some special attitude for this question about postmodern world "literature fanaticism". I have sensed than in post-Soviet Russia literature as a media has met certain critical distance and re-estimation, if compare to former times.




Omon Ra


    I agree, writing is a very good way to fix attention, internal states, feelings. In addition, we are compelled to constantly collect and record grains of valuable information in the turbulent flow of the modern information world. It can be said that this is spiritual practice - the same as contemplation, meditation, dreaming

    Literary fanaticism is something else... This is the penetration of consumerism into the world of literature. I fully agree with this. Almost all bookstores are decorated with advertising signs: "Reading is fashionable". This means that it does not matter what you read. It's just fashionable to look like an intellectual with a book in your pocket. This gives a benefit in career growth, social status, etc. With such demand, the market gives rise to a mass of writers who publish a book a month and earn good money by it. Maybe it would not be bad if the good authors did not drown in this ocean of second-rate literature.
    This traces the common feature of the modern world - the reduction of the information life cycle and its general depreciation. By the way, the modern music sphere is very similar to the literary sphere...
  

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